143. How Emotional Intelligence (not IQ) Built My Legacy, with Breanna May

In this episode, Carla sits down with Breanna May, founder of The Mind School and former high school teacher turned mindset educator. Breanna shares her story of leaving behind a law career and the frustration of the traditional educational system to build an empowering space that teaches entrepreneurs, educators, and coaches to live through emotional intelligence, NLP, and shadow work.

What You’ll Learn:

• Breanna’s journey from law graduate to educator to mindset-school founder

• Why she believes we’re killing dreams by prioritising IQ over EQ

• The power of emotional intelligence and shadow work to uncover your potential

• How to reframe your story when labels like “flaky” or “inconsistent” sabotage your growth

• Practical mindset tools to help mothers, coaches, and leaders summon courage and clarity

Whether you’re in a career pivot or creating inner transformation, this episode will inspire you to let go of the “shoulds” and embrace your unique path to abundance and fulfilment.

Connect with Breanna:

• On Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/iambreannamay

• Free: Your Coaching Style Quiz: https://quiz.themindschool.com.au/

• Website: www.breannamay.com

Watch the full episode below: (Coming Soon)

• View the transcript

   Hello and welcome back to the Money Mindset Hub podcast. I'm your host Carla Townsend, a money mindset and success coach who helps purpose-driven entrepreneurs dissolve money blocks so they can create a life and business that they never want to escape. And today I have the incredible Breanna May, who is a mindset and business educator, trainer, speaker, and founder of the Mind School, a former high school teacher.

  She left the education system with a dream that we stopped killing our dreams. A dream that one day every mother business teacher and school learns the power of dreams and that we're all equipped with the mental and emotional resources to actually pursue them. So when she closed her classroom doors frustrated a system that prioritizes IQ over eq, she made a joke that she'd open her own school, which she did. So the Mind School is a school that teaches coaches, educators, business owners, and leaders how to unleash their potential and fulfillment through mindset NLP emotional intelligence and shadow work. Welcome, Breanna. 

  Thank you so much for having me. We've never actually met like online like this before and we've been chatting off the mic and I'm like. Like I can already tell this is gonna be such a cool conversation. You've got such a cool energy. So I'm just really, really stoked and privileged to be here. 

  I am so happy that you're here. I've been looking forward to this for weeks. Let's be honest, because there are so many things that we could discuss, but let's just take it all back to the start. For anyone that hasn't met you yet, but your journey spans from a law graduate to a teacher to A CEO, and what was that pivotal moment that actually led you to establishing the mind school and truly follow your purpose work? 

  Oh, there's a long-winded answer and there is the short answer, which is that I feel like I spent my twenties just eternally frustrated. So frustrated and I felt like I couldn't figure out the thing that was my thing, and I didn't feel like I fit into any box. So I tried all these things and then I developed this story that I'm flaky, I'm inconsistent, you know, I don't stick to things.

  I thought I was the problem. And. The moment that it all sort of clicked for me and that I was like, oh my God, something needs to change. Like now I'd finished my law degree. I was like, this actually isn't for me. I don't want the life that these barristers have. I don't wanna be promoted into these positions that my boss, would dangle the carrot for.

  I was like, I don't want that. This is so boring. I hate this. I wanted to keep traveling, keep finding my purpose, eat, pray, love. I was obsessed with travel, so I was like, you know what, for now I'll be a teacher. I'll go back, study a bit more, get in the classroom. 'cause then I get my 12 weeks of holidays so I can still travel.

  I love learning. I'm obsessed with learning. Didn't know then how much I loved teaching. Didn't know then how much I loved kids. Didn't know how much I loved mindset, emotional intelligence, all of these things. So I fell into the classroom and it was the best accident of my whole life. I always say like, I didn't actually intentionally choose teaching either.

  I sort of did it 'cause that would, help me travel, but I didn't even apply for the job that I got. It fell in my lap. They essentially offered it to me when I just came to have a look at the school. I said one year, one year only. And then I'm moving to the uk. Like I'm outta here. I'm moving to the uk.

  I gotta go eat, pray, love, find myself, find the damn thing. 'cause I'm not fitting a box. I said I would leave after one year, five years later I was obsessed with my students. I couldn't leave them. I had teacher guilt. I loved them so much. I was obsessed with the classroom, but at the same time, my heart was fucking breaking because the system is just so broken, so outdated, so irrelevant, so archaic that the teachers were breaking, the students were breaking.

  We weren't teaching anything relevant. And the day that my favorite cohort graduated. I'd taught them for five years. So I'd had them when they were 12, they were now 18, and they were all adults. And they'd come in and talk to me about what parties they'd gone to on the weekend and what they're gonna do after school.

  And we had such a close, such a deep connection, and so I put on a graduation party for them. And I had like fake champagne. I brought in bottles and we were like popping bottles in class and pretending obviously. 'cause you know, even though they were 18, I couldn't bring them, real alcohol wouldn't do that.

  So brought them some fake champagne. I wrote a speech to them and it was this. Fucking like you see on a Hollywood movie. It was like, go for your dreams. You can do anything. You can be anything. You can have anything. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise. I don't care what your parents say. I don't care what your grades say.

  I don't care what anyone says. Do what you fucking love and don't let me see you in 10, 20, 30 years being the majority who's broke, unhealthy and unhappy. I don't want that for you. I loved these kids so much and after my big speech, which I really, I really fucking meant it like. That's what I want for you.

  I just want you to follow whatever you want. One of my boys, he goes, Hey, miss was your dream always to be a teacher?

  And I just literally felt my heart like shatter because here I am talking this big talk. And I said to them, nah, I didn't actually dream of being a teacher. I fell into it. I wanted to travel.

  I love you guys, but I hate teaching Shakespeare. Like, I hate teaching you guys essays. You know this. They knew this. They knew that. I was like, oh, back to Macbeth, back to Romeo and Juliet, whatever. And so when I said to them, no, this actually probably isn't my dream, they were like, well, what is it? And I said, I want a podcast.

  I'd love a podcast. I'd love to make money online, and I wanna teach the stuff that. I teach you at recess and lunch when we're having chats, and they were like, do it, miss. You've gotta do it. And I said, fine. So they graduated and then I handed in my resignation and we sort of all did it together. And I felt like I had to be the person that I wanted my students to actually look up to. 

  Oh, I got goosebumps when you were saying that story because it's so true. It was that moment, that reflection from him to you. Was just like, oh God, I'm telling you all this, but yet here I am not a hundred percent there yet. You know

   It's so hard. And I'm still in contact with this student. He's getting married now and we still chat and he actually went on to do teaching. I. He said that in his assignments, he's often reflects on because of the impact that I had. And he sent me this beautiful message and I said, but you changed my life too.

  Like you asked me a question that changed my life. And it's funny, I feel like there just becomes an age where you stop dreaming and it happens younger now, like kids do it in primary school. But by the time they got to high school, they were already burnt out. They were already sick of learning. They already thought that learning was boring.

  They already thought that they were dumb or they were the equivalent of their grades and nothing else. They'd already developed so many stories, and so it makes sense to me why so many adults are walking around not even really checking in with themselves and asking if they've designed their life intentionally.

  I saw it happening. I saw it before my eyes, like year sevens come in. Sometimes they're really excited and they can't wait to be in high school. By the end of year seven, they're done. And I think, well, that was the trajectory for me too. I sort of just started adulting and stopped dreaming, and it was that question from him that changed it. 

  Yeah, you're so right because it does start really, really young. And I know before we started recording, I mentioned to you that I started doing some casual work in the school that my kids go to because these kids needed the help. They were really desperate for the help, and I, I just could not have the capacity to do it and not do it.

  And these poor kids get no one there to help them, you know? So I was just like, I'll do it. I'm gonna put my name forward, I've got the capacity, I can do it even, it's just one or two days, but I wanna be there to help these kids because I can't handle the thought of them not having someone there. And it's. also an opportunity to be that voice of empowerment like you were to the teenagers and these are, you know, six to 12 year olds be that voice of empowerment. But you're so right that it starts so young and you would've seen it in all your clients, regardless of their age, it all begins in their childhood.

  So many of the things that they're trying to decondition from and relearn and unbe become is from the story that was created when they were a child around who they are and who the world let be. And it's so sad because you can see so much in these kids. They can truly do and be anything, but unless they have that support network or that inner voice, that inner dialogue, which really is a combination of everyone around them, they're going to be what the world tells 'em that they will be So. it's beautiful that that question led you to where you are now, because now you're able to help everybody do that. And not just that, but all the women that you're helping that then go on to have children, they're gonna teach their children a different way because of what you've taught them, you know?

  And I think that's beautiful. This domino effect is never ending. 

  Yeah and what you just said is so true. I find. When I'm working with clients now and there's something holding them back, or there is a belief that they can't shift or they can't even allow themselves to dream or they're cock blocking money, whatever it might be, when we peel it back and find the origin story, it's almost always.

  For actually for a lot of women, it seems to be high school you know, a lot of us have gone through a bit of high school shit, but the ripple effects of that are so huge that now I've got 30, 40, 50-year-old women who are still operating as a hurt 16-year-old or as a hurt 15-year-old and watching that from a different perspective.

  As a teacher, I could sometimes see the moment a kid would formulate a belief and knowing what I know, I was like, oh no, this is not good. This is why I had so many issues with all of the testing, all of the exams, all of the highlighting of kids' scores, putting the medium ranking up on the board like it was.

  So, Hey, what did you get? What did you get? I did better. She be like. And I said, I don't give a fuck what grades you got. I don't care if you are not well, or if you can't cope in a high stress situation like an exam, it doesn't mean anything. You're not gonna, you're not gonna thrive after school.

  The internal world matters more. And I'd see moments where little beliefs would be collected like, oh, I'm not smart enough. Or I'm the class clown and that's all I'll ever be. I've gotta be the funny person. Otherwise, where's my like, there was so many little bits and pieces that I saw the moment it formulated.

  And I was so lucky that when I quit teaching, so many of those kids actually became clients and I was able to like unravel, like you said, unravel, unlearn, unbe become that origin story. So that you don't end up being that 40, 50, 60-year-old woman who's still being led by a 16-year-old narrative. 

  Yeah, it's mind blowing. So then on that same path, what beliefs or identities did you have to release then to become the woman who can lead the mind school?   What did you have to un become and become? 

  A huge question, and it's funny that you are like the money queen because for me it was all money stuff. I had so much work to do around money. I had to actually unlearn beliefs around, but wanting money makes you greedy. The love of money is, you know, the root of all evil. All of this real old school programming that had made me feel like.

  Because of my identity. I am a country kid. Like I'm from the country. I'm very down to earth. My family is all very grass, what's the word? Is it grassroots? Is that the term? 

  Yeah, look, I butcher every common phrase, 

  it's like my family is like. So down to earth, salt of the earth, humans. And I am that like I, I am that. But that identity kind of imprisoned me a little bit because I was too scared to outgrow it. I was too scared to desire more, to want more, to allow myself to actually take up. Space because I was scared that it would make me different.

  I was scared that it would make me greedy. I was scared it would make me no longer that down to earth country bumpkin that I've always been. And so I had to do so much work to allow myself to be both, but also to allow myself money. Money was just so unsafe for me. So the first year of business, I had to work really closely with my coach around money and things like that.

  The easy thing for me, which is something I say to a lot of women who are starting businesses is that I already had the identity as a teacher. I already knew I can teach anything. Just put me in front of a class and I'll find a way, if I can make Shakespeare engaging, I can make anything engaging like I already knew.

  I'm a fucking great teacher, so I leaned on the thing, the identity and the confidence that I'd already built through my experience. Started my business very much leaning on that. So I still see myself in my business as a teacher. It wasn't a huge jump, and I think that's why I didn't have much imposter syndrome when I started.

  Yes, I had money stuff, I had some identity stuff, but I didn't have a lot of imposter syndrome because I started with something that I knew. I could do and I was experienced in, and that's a conversation that I just wanted to add. 'cause so many women, when they start, they go from one thing to something completely different.

  And then they've got all this imposter syndrome, they don't have any evidence in their evidence log. And it's so hard to recreate. It's not to say it can't happen, but the identity of a teacher remained. And then, you know, through every season of business I've had to. You know, hiring team, that's a whole new level.

  And having different kinds of clients, whole new level going into business coaching after my business started to really do really well. All these different shifts along the way, but money was actually the main one. 

  Do you know what? I think it always comes up and sometimes it's at the beginning and sometimes it's years down the track, but I believe at every point, every entrepreneur will have to face their money stories and go into money mindset as this standalone thing. It's a little bit separate, but again, at the same time, it's all personal development. And it's just seeing where you've connected your identity, I suppose, to the money in your bank or the the paycheck or how much you're making, it's always tied around that self-worth. So it's interesting.

  Hmm.

  then that, we'll stick with the money stuff, but what are some of the common patterns then that you see in the high achievers that you work with that are actually silently sabotaging their success? 

  There's a few and it kind of can go in two different ways. The first one is definitely a visibility thing. A lot of women are scared of fully stepping up, taking up space, being seen, and again, it probably does when we go back to the origin For me. Most of my wounding was from high school and it was with lots of girls saying, I talk too much.

  And I had this really hard story of like, you talk too much. My school reports always said it. My teachers always said it. My kids around me said it. So then to be like, I have a dream of being a chatter box on a fucking microphone was a little bit scary because I think that the thing that I had the most wounding around is also one of my greatest gifts.

  So it was really, really challenging. I had a visibility thing, which I see a lot of women struggle with, and so they'll kind of go half-assed in their content. They won't really say what they're saying. They'll water down what they're actually wanna say because they're scared of judgment. They're scared of people disagreeing with them.

  Then you add the layers of the society that we're in and such a huge cancel culture and we're so sensitive online, it's like, I'm offended and you shamed me. And, and it's just, we've really gotten, we've lost resilience, we've lost maturity. I feel like there's so much of that that now people are, dunno what to say, dunno how to hold an opinion.

  So I think again, it all comes back to emotional intelligence and increasing our capacity to hold it all. But some of the patterns would be watering down the messages that they want to actually say. Not taking up space. And funnily enough, not selling so many of the ladies that I coach, I'm like, you're doing all the things, but you are not selling.

  Like, we don't know how to buy from you. You're not screaming it from the rooftops like it's you invented bread. And so selling has so much stuff around it. And that's some of the patterns I see on the one side. The other piece that I've sort of noticed. Especially in the coaching industry. I don't know if you've seen this, because so many people are comparing themselves to people who are going, I make six figures by working three hours a day.

  And you know, there's this huge amount of rhetoric around how you can make so much by doing fuck all. And then people become a little bit entitled. It's like, well, I've been posting, I've been posting for a whole month, where's all my clients? And it's like we've become disillusioned. We've become.

  Almost a bit expectant and not really putting in the work. Like I've had people go, oh, I don't know if I'll keep doing my podcast. It's not working. And it's like, you know, how many episodes have you done? It's like, oh, 12. I think you are comparing yourself to Steven Bartlett. You're comparing yourself to all these people that have done hundreds of episodes.

  We need to put in more work. So I think there is that little pattern that can slip in if we don't check ourselves. I have to check myself of entitlement. Like, what, where's my Lambo? It's like, where, 

  mean, please come on. 

  where I've been doing things for four years and it's like, that's cute. Keep going, like put in the work, and don't be afraid of the hard stuff.

  The more hard stuff you do is typically equally proportionate to how easy it becomes later. 

  Yeah, for sure. And you just hit the nail on the head there because that entitlement thing comes up so often and it's, I, I think when we go to the root of it all, if you know what your purpose is and you are doing what is your purpose work, there is no end. There is no, have to be x make X do X by X date, otherwise I'm a failure.

  Yeah.

  It's like I'm doing this because. You could do it for nothing. What would you do if you had all the money in the world and you, you didn't actually have to earn anything? Would you still be doing what you're doing? And if the answer is yes, well let go of the timelines. We don't need to have the timelines here, but you need to put in the effort. You can't get any results without the efforts,

  mm-hmm. Yeah.

  like hard work's. Got a bit of a taboo lately. I think you've seen the same. 

  a hundred percent. I love what you said too about getting rid of the timelines. That was something that I definitely had to do in the beginning. 'cause I started off like, right, I need to make this much by this month or otherwise I'm going back to teaching. And it was so scary and that fucking energy of it's desperation energy, it's just so gross.

  And so the best thing I actually did to start was getting a part-time job. So I didn't have any of that. Desperation. But you're right. I think hard work has got a bit of taboo and there's so many labels. It's like, oh, you're to in your masculine if you love, you know, there's just so much that women are now questioning every single thing that they do going, oh, maybe I'm not feminine enough, or if I'm hustling too much, maybe my nervous system's pride.

  And there's so much overanalyzing where it's like, what if you just love what you do and you actually enjoy work? Don't make yourself wrong for that. 

  Yeah, and why don't we just set our own standards of like, all right, you know what, this is consistency to me. This feels good for me. Put it in context too, right? Everybody's lives are different. Everybody's commitments are different. Everyone's support is different, and. Yeah, you couldn't be more, right. I think it just gets a bit hard with the social media being all the highlight reels, which I'm about, to be honest, like my newsfeed is a vibe, but I don't also look at people and go, I wish I was there. I don't care. I'm just like, oh, that's amazing. But didn't always, it wasn't always like that.

  Hmm.

  for anyone listening that feels like they see people's success and they're getting a bit triggered by it. Maybe just need to step back a bit, put some boundaries, don't consume it.

  Like remember to be creating more than you are consuming,

  Hmm.

  especially like what you said, we'll go into emotional intelligence too, but especially around that, if you feel like maybe you're being a bit rattled and emotionally, you just don't have the resilience right now to be scrolling, probably take that outta your life.

  It's gonna make you feel more shit than good. 

  Yeah.

  So.  Let's go into that because you envision emotional intelligence being you taught in every school, every workplace, and every household. How can emotionally intelligent women learn to actually hold more? Like you were saying, you know, there's visibility blocks, you had blocks around being too much and having a podcast and being a chatter box and all these things.

  But how can someone who feels like they are emotionally intelligent actually learn to hold more, then more success, more visibility, more wealth, that burning out and breaking down. 

  Such a good question. I think this is where it comes back to that doing the hard stuff, doing the hard thing. The hard thing is actually often how we increase our capacity, not in a way that's burnt out and we're hustling so much. We're trying to push, push, push, increase our capacity, because if we think about our emotional capacity as a spectrum, if we don't find evidence and opportunities to prove to ourselves, oh, I can actually hold this.

  I can have someone say something about me and I can hold it, and in that moment I can actually, it might hurt. It might hurt. Someone might say something about me online and it fucking cuts, but I know that in that moment I've got a choice. I can step back and water myself down again, and then further embed the belief that it's scary and unsafe to show up online.

  Or I can practice going, okay, what is this bringing up for me? What is this actually do? You know, doing our own internal work and then going, I didn't die. I didn't. I didn't fucking die. I didn't die and I'm still here. And actually maybe that post, that opinion polarized people, for every three people that hated it, 10 people fucking loved it.

  So you start to go, I can hold this, I can hold this by practicing doing it when it's hard and doing the difficult thing with money. This is probably more something that you would riff on, but I think sometimes when you're not safe, 'cause it all comes down to safety, how, and safety and self trusts. If you don't feel safe in yourself or trust that you can hold the hard things or trust that you can manage the money well or trust that you can respond in a way that's still grounded, then you'll go back to your safety and you'll keep sabotaging and you'll keep going backwards.

  So working on your capacity equals working on your self trust and working on your ability to show up as the person you want to be. In the moments that you're feeling like you wanna go backwards. So for me, increasing capacity is building our trust, which means consistently choosing the challenging thing so that we build evidence to go.

  I can hold it. I didn't die. This was safe and I trust myself. So with money, like I know so many people, as soon as they get money, they'll spend it. As soon as they have a little bit extra, they'll find a way to let it go. And so for them, it could be a three month challenge where they actually keep that money in their bank account, hold it, and build that trust, that internal belief system that.

  Oh, I actually can do this. Oh, nothing bad actually happened. Oh. Didn't change my worth at all. Oh, none of my friends abandoned me. Whatever the thing is, we can stay, hold it, practice the hard thing, and then build new stories and safety within that. 

  Mm. Love all of that.

  And also what you were saying when someone has said something say about you, and it really cuts deep. It made me write down something that we've taught our kids opinions versus facts. Is it an opinion or is it a fact? So whatever they said, if it's just their opinion, again, it's up to you how you perceive that and if that rattles you or not, or what you do about it. Because an opinion is just an opinion.

  Hmm.

  what they think and that's going through so many filters to get to that opinion. And maybe you just caught 'em on a bad day 

  Yeah. 

  but then versus is it a fact and it is 100%, without a doubt, the absolute truth, there's no other way to look at it.

  Hmm.

  That's the difference we've said to our kids, anyway, that might just help someone listening. 

  Love that. 

  The ones in school are six and eight, my youngest is four. She does not care. But, but you know, whenever they're dealing with that, kids at school and things, I'm just like, oh, is it an opinion or is it a fact? And what do we do if it's an opinion?

  And what do we do if it's a fact? And they're like, oh, okay, yeah, that's an opinion.

  It's

  care. 

  so good. I, I love this is like my soul lights up when I hear of parents like parenting dumb this way. And then I think it's so funny, I don't yet have children. I'm manifesting that for myself. But then I think. It must be really challenging. 'cause I think I want to raise kids, all kids in the school system, my own kids, my nieces.

  I want kids to have such a critical mind that they can do that. That they can always go, hold on, is that my opinion? Is that their opinion is that facts. But then you raise these kids that go actually, mom, like is it your opinion that we need to go to bed at 7:00 PM or is that a fact, and I think one day I am gonna actually be like, why did I raise such little critical thinkers?

  But it's so beautiful. It's so fucking beautiful. 

  Yeah. It, yeah, it's challenging at times. They mirror you and they're definitely a, a beautiful mirror at the same

  Yeah.

  to see where else you maybe thought you had or transformed, and maybe you hadn't

  Yeah.

  what's really interesting about it. So what is a question then that you believe that every female, say entrepreneur specifically, or just any female in general, should be asking herself daily when it comes to their emotional intelligence? 

  So if something has actually come up, as in you're feeling a little triggered, I always say to like, look at your triggers as in, and I don't mean triggers like PTSD triggers, I mean like, Ooh, that didn't quite sit right. Oh, I felt a little bit of shame there. Or, oh, I don't want people to know that.

  Or, why the fuck did he say it that way? That pissed me off. Like as soon as your emotions have gone heightened and there's something internally that's not sitting right, it's what is the story underneath this? What is this actually bringing up for me? What am I afraid of and what do I not want people to see or know about me?

  Because that when we start to ask the question, what am I afraid of people seeing or knowing about me? That's when we really start to uncover our Shamey shadowy parts that are usually running the show, that are usually the ones sabotaging us, making us play small, making us defensive, making us reactive, making us lose our shit at our partner, making us give up on all of our goals.

  It's the thing that we're afraid of, admitting seeing in ourselves or people knowing. So for me, it's always a question of like, what is this bringing up and what am I afraid of seeing in myself or others Seeing. And then the work is how do I bridge the gap? How do I bring light to the dark parts that I don't want people to know about?

  And for me, it's like, it's always a process of actually owning the thing that I don't want people to know or see. 

  mm How would you say to someone that's, that's thinking right now though, but how do I, how do I actually own it? How do I own the duality of both? Right. 

  I think you start with giving it. Giving it voice. So the thing, usually when women are. Stuck in patterns, stuck in shame, stuck in shadow. They think that they're the only one experiencing it. They think that they're the only horrible person that has these horrible thoughts about their kids.

  They're the only, they're the only entrepreneur that secretly thinks, fuck. Sometimes I want my clients to all go away. And as soon as you actually speak into it, whether it's with a coach or. You might not have to air everything online, but the example for me recently was I'm a mindset coach.

  Like I've built a whole business around mindset, emotional intelligence, people achieving their dreams. And then in the last two years, I've also been going through this fucking shit, trying to conceive journey. I've been in the trenches, to be fair and. I started to not know how to show up on my podcast.

  I didn't know how to show up in my business. I started to feel like the business felt heavy, and I asked myself like, why? What is it that I don't want the world to see? What is it? Because I had this sense that there was like a bit of a mask and that felt heavy and that felt shamey, and I was like, okay, fine.

  So I recorded a podcast, which I'd never done before. Where I just opened up and said, I'm actually not in a good head space at the moment, and I'm a mindset coach. I don't want you to tell me that everything's gonna be okay, and I don't want you to tell me that it all works out. I wanna fucking cry and feel like a victim for a minute, and I'm a mindset coach.

  Like I'm still both things. I'm still. Powerful and optimistic, and I'm still incredible, but I'm also holding all of this and it's hard and I'm struggling. And that podcast got so many downloads, so many women were like, thank you. Because we'd pedestalised you to think that you were so fucking perfect and you didn't have problems and you were so, you know, they said it was kind of nice to see my humanness.

  And that moment and that feedback was such a good example for me and for my clients, that like when you give voice and energy and speak into the thing that you are hiding, speak into the thing that you're a bit ashamed of. Speak into the thing that is causing you some sort of internal discontent.

  A lot of it dissolves right then and there, and then it doesn't have as much power over you. It loses its power when you're not trying to hold it on your own. Because when you keep shame in the shadows, it's like this magnet and it just creates more of the same problems, more sabotage. The second you talk, the second you speak into it, I feel like so much of its power is gone and then you get back in the driver's seat. 

  Mm. That's really beautiful. And it is. It is really, it's really, it makes me emotional whenever I see anyone going through such a difficult journey to become a mom, become a parent. Because you can see how much heart there is and how much you want it, and it's just, yeah, I, I, I'm truly setting you all the blessings and all the

  Thank you.

  know, because it is women like you that should be, 

  Thank you. Yeah 

  and I know it'll, we're all manifesting it for you, but yeah, you sort of choked me up when you were talking and then I was like, oh, I'm gonna. I'll choke up if I,

  yeah.

  if I say the wrong thing, 

  it's actually, it's been the, it's been. The biggest lesson in actual emotional intelligence showing up more authentically. I always thought, like I did show up authentically, but this really forced me to go, fuck, I can't hide it. I can't hold this on my own. I can't do this in private and then show up and be, you know, who I am in my business.

  I need there to be less compartmentalization so that it doesn't feel as heavy. And there's been so many cool conversations of really, and again, this is why I'm like emotional intelligence is the thing that makes or breaks marriages. It's the things that makes or breaks friendships. It's the thing that makes or breaks your career.

  If I hadn't done as much work as I had in the past, I don't know if I would've been able to keep, like I've been going through IVF now for six months and 18 months before that of trying. Financially it's consuming. Mentally, it's consuming. Emotionally, it's consuming. Some days your heart is just cracking, like breaking.

  You've gone to an appointment, they've told you something bad, and then you've gotta show up for your clients and then you've gotta go teach a class on something really empowering. And

  Oh

  it's really because of the work that I've done to be able to build my capacity. Show up. However, I need to show up and, and trust that people can hold both trust that there is emotionally intelligent women in front of me who can hold the fact that I might have cried five minutes ago and now I'm fucking on.

  Now I'm on and we're about to blow shit up in your business and I'm excited and I'm pumped to be here. Both don't detract from the other, but we're all things, but I wouldn't have been able to. Keep going in my business, keep supporting clients, manage the really challenging conversations I've had with my husband.

  IVF like is so challenging on a marriage. My friends who have had to tell me they're pregnant in the middle of all this and the huge conversations that we've had where they're crying, I'm crying. It's unfair on them. It's unfair on me. I wanna be happy for them, but I'm also sad for me and they don't know how to deal with it and I don't know how to deal with it.

  But we talk about it and we fucking nut nutted out. And we are honest. And we're open and we are messy and we're all of it. That's all because of EQ and like to circle back. This is why I had to leave the education system because we're promoting iq. It's not the thing anymore. It's actually not. We can get knowledge from chat.

  GPT knows more than we'll ever know, but the emotional intelligence, the ability to hold it, the ability to have these tough conversations in a really weird society right now, shit's crazy. That's what matters. And I wouldn't be standing here today if I hadn't prioritized eq. 

  No, it is so underrated to be honest, because like you said, it is iq. That is the first thing that comes to mind. It's the first thing that you are taught when you, I suppose, go into maybe kindergarten.

  Mm.

  start doing tests and where are you at and where are you marked and all of that.

  But when you're talking about communication. Something that my husband and I, we've been together for 13 years and we always say it's uncommunicated expectations that then lead to arguments and blow ups and all the things. So even if it hurts and even if it's uncomfortable. If you don't communicate your needs, you don't communicate your expectations because you know, like my husband likes to say, I'm not a mind reader, but I just assume he should be. But whenever he says that, I'm like, ah, okay. Yeah, that's, that's the thing. So I mean, how long have you been with your partner for? 

  Coming up to nine years.

  Yeah.

  Yeah. 

  Beautiful. And what would you say then from on that emotional intelligent part, because you've been through such a journey and I only know from being the outsider, I'm probably like one of your friends that you've been talking to this about, I've had friends go through IVF, I have my beautiful sister just go through it After just heartbreak and heartbreak and then finally it works. How would you say, you know, for someone who's on the outer, they are the support person, what would they be able to do then to support someone emotionally if they're going through something really challenging, whether it be through IVF or something else?

  Not just for yourself, but for you to be able to support someone else. What would you say is the most important thing? 

  I think the friends for me that really, they didn't try to fix it. They don't try to, especially if I have had a really. Bad moment and maybe I have wrapped up at friends' houses before and I've just broke into tears. And they don't try to reframe it. They don't try to change your state, which is very coach, which is what the coaching industry is.

  You know, change your state, reframe your thoughts. They're just like, this is fucked. This is so fucked. And they'll just be in the mud with me and that means more than anything. I also remember one of my best friends because so many people don't understand and I didn't understand either.

  I had no clue how what went into IVF. I was so ignorant and how can people understand unless they've been in it. One of my best friends anyway, she has decided not to have children, so it's not something she can empathize with. She doesn't understand this pain. She doesn't understand IVF, and yet she was the most invested. She would check in every month, how's your heart? How are you feeling? She'd do her own research. She would look into things, dietary things that might help me. She'd look into supplements. She was in it, researching, she wanted to understand, and even that from someone who doesn't even want kids, but loves me so much that, oh my God, I think I'm gonna get emotional.

  Like I just remember saying to my husband, you know, Claire doesn't even want kids. She's researching shit for IVF and she's looking into like smoothies that I can drink and she's messaging me every month to make sure I'm all good. And she has been so in it. That level of empathy, that empathy is something that I can't even articulate the value of it.

  And again, it's eq, like I have so much love for this girlfriend and. It was never trying to fix, but it was seeking to understand because it's hard to have empathy when you don't understand what someone's going through. So she just went and educated herself and that just meant so much. 

  that's so beautiful and there is so much to it. I didn't understand it fully, and I probably still don't, you know, even from having the conversations and just being there, being that one that just listens and I'm here. But there's so much in it, so I can't even imagine how hard it truly is being, you right now going through it. Final couple of questions. I don't wanna see, I don't want you to get more emotional.  ​

   It takes a lot for me to like get in for this to happen and you're just such an incredible interviewer and you hold such a safe space and I think that this is actually a testament to you. 'cause it's not very often that I'll have a cry on a podcast. So thank you. It's actually really nice.  

  Thank you. Thank you for saying that. It's a really beautiful

  if every ambitious woman could master just one inner skill, what would it be and why? Other than the ones we've spoken about, obviously anything that would help her create more ease, more impact. 

  It would be to override the initial thought or feeling. To feel the initial thought of feeling that is, ah, no, I can't do this. And then recognize it and go, ah, cute, but I'm doing it anyway. Like to just be able to do battle with their own internal stuff. 

  Yeah. I love that. I love that. And that's hard. That's really hard to not be reactive in the moment. 

  Mm. Yeah. It's so hard, but I think that skill of. Being the observer of your internal world and knowing when to just do exactly that. Observe it, notice it. Like I still, I show up every single week on my podcast. I've done it for years. I still have days where I'll get in my head and I'm like, you sound like shit.

  What are you talking? You're so laughing to you before this, or, that's so nasally. You are this, you are that. No one cares. What are you talking about? And I can recognize it, hear it, and be like, Ugh. And just keep going. Anyway. 

  Yeah, my, my husband, I refer to it as our inner bitch. 

  Yeah. 

  whenever, you know, whether it, whatever it is you're trying to do, especially for the gym, it always comes up for the gym. And I love training in the gym, have done it for so

  Mm-hmm.

  but that voice always creeps up, right? Where it's like, nah, we are sore.

  It's too.

  Yeah. Cold. Yep.

  Who wants to do that, but then you go, you love it. You feel amazing from doing it. So it's just, it's the

  Yep.

  If you could give one piece of advice about money and success to your younger self, what would it be? 

  You can create anything you want. You've just got to allow yourself to want it.

  Hmm.

  I was too scared to want. I was the person who, when someone said, but what do you want? I was like, I don't know. I don't know what I want. And now I know that that was just an egos protective mechanism because I knew exactly what I wanted, but it was so scary to admit. It was so scary to say out loud that I held the narrative for years that I don't know what I want.

  The more women I've worked with, the more I've seen that 99% of women, when we really get down to it, when we get rid of the fear, we get rid of the what ifs. We get rid of all of the ego things that are keeping them in the way of just wanting they know exactly what they want. 

  mm, they definitely do. I dunno whether you've done this before, but I've always asked myself if I can't quite get clarity on what it is I want. And I've said this to clients too, ask yourself, what don't you want?

  Hmm.

  'cause then the opposite is clarity. 

  So good. 

  find it's easier, isn't it? Like your brain will go to, no, I don't want that. 

  Yeah.

  I don't want that. 

  So good. Yeah, it was so easy at looking at, it's so much easier to look at the negatives. But it helps. It's so easy. I remember doing that when I left teaching. I was like, well, I don't wanna do marking anymore. I don't want to be on my emails after school. I don't want this. I don't want that. And then it was like, oh, okay.

  I want freedom. That matters to me. I don't want to be so analytical all the time. I want to be creative again. So I was like, okay, I need a creative freedom based business has started to do it from that contrast. 

  It's a beautiful spot to start.

  Hmm

  just starting.

  hmm.

  final question. What's a book that has deeply impacted your life? 

  Oh, so many. I'm such a reader. The one that comes to mind that I get everyone to read is the top five Regrets of the dying and Oh,

  yeah.

  such a tear, jerker, I cry every single time. It's just that reminder of like. What's important, what you're gonna actually think about on your deathbed, 'cause we're all gonna have that moment.

  And it's not. It's I think, just a really wholesome way to remember what matters. 

  Yeah, and think we, from what I was reading, you know, being a bit of a stalker reading on your website and things, but I think we're very aligned in the sense that the biggest fear mine and probably yours too is I don't wanna get to the end of my days and have regrets that I didn't even try. I don't wanna be like, what if?

  What if I had have done that? What if I hadn't listened to them, my intuition and just done the thing? It probably would've worked out better than I can imagine. But now I won't know 'cause I'm old 

  Yeah, no. So scary and so scary. Also like to look at, I always think now my metrics changed a little bit 'cause I'm like, I'm gonna have kids soon and you know you've got three. I want them to look at me as a role model, similar to when that student said, Mr, you always wanna do this. I couldn't look at them in the eye and say like, yeah, this is my dream.

  So I think also if there's any mothers listening, it's like, who do you want your daughters to look up to? If you've got daughters, what do you want them to see? 'Cause your voice is gonna be their internal voice later. And that to me now is holding me to such a high standard with the way that I talk to myself with the regrets that I'm not willing to settle for with standards.

  Because I think one day I am gonna be some child's adult voice and I better watch my shit. So that's helping me to also make sure I'm not full of resent. 'cause I was too scared to do the things that I wanted to do. 

  And do you know what's also beautiful? One day, your future children will get to listen to your podcast.

  that's cool.

  will read your blog, they will see your work, your legacy. I always think at the end of the day, what I'm making is going to live on through them. Like I'm kind of making it for them

  Mm.

  in a way. the things that I wish I had have known. When I was younger would've made life so much easier because I was the same as you in my twenties. Just like, what is my purpose? I'll just keep doing the things, but I just dunno, 

  Yeah. Yeah. 

  following that linear path that we're sort of all taught, go to school, get good grades, go to uni, do all the things, but it just wasn't right.

  So I, I think that's a really beautiful thing to remember is that one day they will read all this and that will become their inner voice because you have spent so long.

  Hmm.

  Creating this,

  Hmm.

  and for that, I just want to thank you your work that you're putting out, this beautiful legacy that you're building, the mind school, everything that you have done through your work and the way that you show up even when times are really tough and like what you're going through right now.

  It's beautiful that you able to share that now and not feel that heaviness as much. I'm sure it has its days, but it's beautiful that you're still able to move through this. And still impact thousands across

  the world, not just Australia, but across the world with your work, and you will continue to do so.

  So on behalf of everybody who's listening and your clients and your future clients, thank you for what you're doing. 

  Thank you so much. And honestly, I mean it like, thank you for the space you hold in this podcast because I have loved this. You'll have to come onto mine. I wanna hear your story now. We'll get you on the Mind School podcast because like I said, it's not very often that I'm reduced to tears in an inter interview, so thanks for that and I actually mean it.

  I actually mean it. It's so nice to have that vulnerable space that you've created in safety, so thank you. 

  Thank you.

   Thank you so much for tuning into today's episode. I really hope that you enjoyed it. And be sure to subscribe so that you don't miss any of the incredible future episodes and guests that we have coming up for you. And if you haven't already subscribed to our email list, be sure to do so because we have some pretty epic things coming this year, as well as the magazine will be sent to our subscribers every single month to help you with all things, money and mindset, personal development and entrepreneurship.

  The world needs more kindhearted, women like you with deep pockets. I'll catch you in the next episode.